In addition to coverage of this incident in the print media, the issue and the incident was a topic on the The Phil Donahue Show, which aired on July 30, 1985. (To date we've been unable to obtain either a transcript or a tape of this show.)
   While it is our understanding that Paul and his parents were on the show, the only other persons known who were present were: Raul Chavez, Communications Director of the BSA and Ed Dobson, the right-hand man in Jerry Falwell's Moral Majority.
   In a letter to the editor of the New York Times, Rev. William F. Schulz, President, UUA, comments on Chavez's lack of theological training in talking about "belief in God as a "supreme Being" is common to all religions."
   In a Christianity Today article (August 11, 1997) on the "education" of Ed Dobson, it mentions Dobson's appearance on The Phil Donahue Show as follows:

"Sometime in late 1985 Dobson flew to New York City to appear on The Phil Donahue Show. There he defended the Boy Scouts of America, who recently had denied a West Virginia boy's promotion to Life Scout because he said he didn't believe in God. While liberals called this mean-spirited and coercive, conservatives hailed the Boy Scouts for setting guidelines that honored the Lord and for sticking to them.

On the midtown-Manhattan set that day, young Paul Trout, the scout in question, and his mom sat waiting to tell their story. The minute Donahue introduced "Ed Dobson, who works for Jerry Falwell," the studio audience erupted in boos.

"I was thrilled," Dobson recalls. "I told myself, I'm the only voice here to speak for righteousness, and promptly waded into the debate."

That night on the way home, something happened in the Charlotte, N.C., airport that unsettled forever Dobson's view of the world and ministry. He was changing planes to catch the short hop to Lynchburg when he happened to run into a colleague, a Liberty University professor.

"He asked where I was coming from, and I told him about my exciting day in New York — being picked up by a limousine, meeting Phil Donahue, arguing for faith and morality on national television. The show was aired live over much of the country in those days.

"The professor just looked at me, and when I stopped to take a breath, he said, very seriously, 'Well — you're casting your pearls before swine.'

"I was caught totally off guard. 'What do you mean?' I responded.

"''Ed, you are first and foremost a preacher and a pastor,' he said with utmost sincerity. 'All of this other stuff is a waste of your time. It doesn't matter for eternity.'

"It was a very bold statement, and I didn't agree with him, of course. But there wasn't time to continue the discussion. I had to run for my plane."

Cruising through the nighttime Carolina sky, however, Ed Dobson was seized with reflection and self-examination. Could it be that he had wandered from his first calling? Could it be that his battle to change the popular culture was misguided?"

Scouting as a Religion
Washington Post Editorial
July 25, 1985

Fifteen-year-old Paul Trout of' West Virginia found out the hard way, and perhaps there are a few million other people his age around the Country who aren't aware of it: the Boys Scouts of America is a religious organization. According to a. letter sent to the boy's parents by Ben Love, chief scout executive of the Boy Scouts of America, "Youth and/or adult members . . . must meet certain membership requirements. One of these requirements is belief in a Supreme Being." Anyone who does not have such a belief cannot be a member," the Love letter informed the parents. And since their son was honest enough to say that he respected the rights of others to believe in God but did not hold such a belief himself, his membership in Troop 105 has been revoked.

If that's the official policy of the Boy Scouts – and not simply discrimination on the basis of creed – so be it. If scouting is a religion, let it be treated accordingly. This should mean, of course, that the Boy Scouts of America will be dropped from the list of United Way beneficiaries, not to mention the Combined Federal Campaign that has government payroll-deduction privileges. And perhaps religious jamborees shouldn't be conducted on US Army bases either.

With this categorization of the Boy Scouts clearly understood. the "belief ina Supreme Being" requirement should come as no surprise. It might even be more 'prominently stated in all materials about membership in the Boy Scouts. But that's for the members of the religion to decide for themselves.

President of UUA "Disappointed" in Boy Scouts' Response

Letter from the Rev. William F. Schulz
President, UUA
to the Editor, New York Times
August 2, 1985

Dear Editor:

   The Boy Scouts of America (BSA), one of our finest civic organizations, has recently entangled itself in theological controversy. Paul Trout, an outstanding 15-year-old Scout from West Virginia, has been denied Life rank and expelled from the Scouts because he cannot affirm God as a "Supreme Being." Raul Chavez, Communications Director of the BSA, claimed on the July 30 Phil Donahue Show that belief in God as a "supreme Being" is common to all religions and therefore to require that belief as a prerequisite to Scout membership does not violate the non-sectarian nature of the organization. Unfortunately for Mr. Chavez, theological knots are far more intricate than the knots with which the Scouts are used to dealing.
   The Scout Oath requires that a Scout do his duty "to God and country," never mind that those two duties may often be in conflict with one another. Should the BSA wish to require of its members a belief in some kind of God it surely may do so but, if it does, it ought to (1) make that requirement explicitly clear to prospective Scouts and (2) recognize that it is thereby establishing a "religious test" for membership and excluding a whole host of young people, including some Unitarian Universalists, who consider themselves religious people but who do not speak of their faith and spirituality in terms of God. Such a religious test also raises questions as to whether the Scouts ought to receive government funds or utilize government properties.
   More to the point with regard to Paul Trout, however, is that, though he is willing to speak of "God," he does not conceive of God as a "Supreme Being." In this respect he is, contrary to Mr. Chavez's reading of religious history, in exceptionally good company. Not only do most Eastern religions have far less hierarchical notions of deity than the Scouts do but even the Christian tradition, particularly in its more mystical manifestations, offers considerable support for Mr. Trout's wariness of God's "supremacy." It is ironic that Paul Tillich, arguably the greatest Christian theologian of this century, could not be a Boy Scout for he understood God as the "ground of all Being," exactly opposite to a "supreme Being." And even Jesus might have difficulty qualifying if he held to his opinion that "the Kingdom of God is within you!" Indeed, much of contemporary theology, influenced in large measure by feminist spirituality, has long since abandoned the notion of God as "above" or "beyond" Creation, greater than all that is.
   But then why should Mr. Chavez be expected to know that? His business is not theology but the development of leadership in young people. That is of course the very point. Let the Scouts stick to what they do best and let them heed the words of a great believer: "God is not what you imagine," said Augustine of Hippo, "or what you think you understand. For if you understand, you have failed."

Sincerely,
The Rev. William F. Schulz, D.Min.
President Unitarian Universalist Association
Boston, MA
 

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